Having a mount also throws Mounted Combatant into the mix. You can frustrate enemies, protect you allies, make great use of your smites* cool stuff all around. Also have you forgot it was you yourself that proposed do iui ng more damage in a single round than damage over a longer period? Fighter 3 - Take Battle Master. #1 Guys, Im finishing up my Paladin Vengeance Build, I just need some help picking my Race (Variant Human or Half-Elf) and Feats/ASIs (PAM, GWM, Sentinel). damage doesn't properly reflect damage dealt you are simply losing me. Not bad for a min/max vengeance setup. reach you are immune to it's Fire Aura! No matter what you do Smites will still burst damage anything. With that said, letting you roam around freely would be as dangerous for them overall since you proved you were a hard smacker. It is better to have a high AC and high Saves then high STR as a Paladin. At level 7 a Paladin can Solo a CR 13 Creature. Would taking PAM/Sentinel at 4th and 8th put me too far behind the curve? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You can make what ever PAM Paladin you want and we will see what has more single round damage across all categories and which has a higher hit percentage. I'll have to give it a go! Well as a Paladin main player with 15 years of playing across multiple games and DMs I've spent more time running after things in the open that are trying to get away from the Paladin because hes slow as shit then having perfect scenarios work. A +4 will do just fine. They were 2 separate questions. crit vs. max crit and normal hit vs. normal hit max dmg is because of the sheer number of dice thrown. Please enable JavaScript to get the best experience from this site. I would always lean to having a higher Charisma but its a trade off when making a PAM/Sentinel Paladin as you're feat starved. Lots of people I know like using mountain dwarves, dragonborn, half elves, half orcs and variant humans, but any assortment of boosted strength, constitution and/or charisma can theoretically work. 2. The Paladin guide's polearm build has Str/Cha of 16 until level 12, so given how feat-heavy the polearm build is you might be better to just stick with a GWM build and sneak in a +2 Str at level 8. If your reach is 10ft from the Lance, and you're wielding a Quarterstaff, can you attack them at 10ft range and trigger Sentinel? Paladin are Nova Dealers. Fourth you'll have two turns before combat begins to prepare spell or abilities. In game I also found during a role play in a city who the NPC is who could train me. #1 Sup guys! All rights reserved. Here is the idea use Polearm Master and Sentinel feats to maximum effect, using the oft-unused reaction "action". I wanted to hear your advice as to how to build them the best. But I can see its benefits. Hexblade bladelocks can dip paladin to spike nova damage even higher, but they can't sustain it without further paladin or other caster investments. With PAM, Sentinel, GWM its irrelevant as a Paladin. If you hit their movement goes down to zero. He will have a Soldier background. Try magic initiate (warlock) forbooming blade andeldritch blast (or dip warlock for them, probably the better short-term option), along with polearm master and warcaster. Where did Joe roll this damage? Go Half-elf or Variant Human for extra Feat? Also consider taking the bludgeoning feat for the end of your stick. If we are talking just a longsword then we are talking an 84 point difference between max damage and average and 156 point difference between max crit and avg crit. This allows you to push an enemy once per turn. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. You'll be playing all those character ideas in no time, and then some. 32. The only mention of him doing any significant damage is his 135 against Vecna in Critical Role stream. If this is your first visit, be sure to Other allies can benefit from that trick as well but sadly won't have that handy bonus disengage. In 5 Rounds of Combat you are only dealing slightly more damage than a S&B Paladin. You would start with 16str, 14con, and 16char, and have Str and Char to 18 by level 8. You lose initiative, a melee attacker comes your way and gets whamed in the face once he is 10ft. Lots of foes have reach and if the party is that powerful/numerous youll always be facing more than one foe while you have only 1 reaction. Use choke points to funnel creatures block with bodies etc. 5. Click the link to learn more. My mental image is that of a powerful warrior paladin, standing on the corpses of his enemies, everyone just scared shitless of them. reach which means more chance to crit and more chance to smite). The system runs a lot better when you don't throw the math completely out the window. The number of dice used was too damn high. This was a misunderstanding on my point cause the bulk of what was talked about between me and Rexir had to do comparing different build. At lvl 18 this extends to 168 tiles around you. Just make sure to use your channel divinity to its maximum ability and you'll do great on hitting things. Or anything else? 2023 Wizards. If I may throw in my two cents, precast spells often do matter. You can bonus action shove people prone before your attack(s), basically granting near-permanent advantage on your attacks. 20 strength. or Hammering horns? You'll be behind the curve, but in reality it's not by much because PAM+sentinel isn't too different from PAM+STR, you know? Fighter 9 - Indomitable. Your attack roll bonus is +7, your damage is 1d10 + 4. As a Vengeance Paladin though you are less reliant on Charisma compared to a Devotion. Like what other races have synergy for that exact type of build, along with the Dueling fighting style using a Spear (Spear if want shield or just go Glaive)? As total Round damage will be roughly the same. But the Warden also couldnt touch my AC when he was at Disadvantage from Protection from evil and good. We'll be fighting the same as Further Paladin, making use of PAM's bonus action during Minion type fights while . So what do you guys think is the best setup for Fighting Style, Weapon and Feats for my character? The years of experience playing directly goes into a topic that's covering Sentinel vs Positioning or are you implying that 1st year players are as knowledge on the difference between the two. I agree it's not ideal for anyone with access to Heavy polearms. crit but you still use average damage because you have no chance of rolling that. Depends on the build. I was thinking path of conquest, bc the fear ability seems to combo well with the reaction play. A fighter can shove and damage at same time with trip attack, and the damage is bigger than the beast. Dragonborn get +2 STR, +1 CHA, damage resistances based on their draconic ancestry and their very own breath weapon, which only serves to make them that much more powerful. This would increase your damage out put substantially over slasher. As I've repeatedly said though it matters very little what's done in Paladin v Paladin as the end result on similar characters with different weapons is always going to be a marginal difference at best given a set amount of time. Ok first you're responding to me respond to Rexir2 about single round damage not damage over time or did you not glean this from previous posts on min maxing a Paladin. Granted a Padlock can deal more on a single crit but its max damage is substantially lower. Maneuvering Attack is another good tactical fun choice. The reason it's important to melee with your beast companion is so you can protect it with feats like Sentinel and Mounted Combatant. As the title says, i want to build a paladin with PAM and Sentinel. :). So I need to figure out what I should take on levels 1,4 and 8. This is a reason why I like to dip paladin for melee sorcerer builds. . No such thing as too much D&D :). Please enable JavaScript to get the best experience from this site. credit to the Machine-Gunning Crossbowman build creator, for formatting (and some overlapping content). I may not havebless up or even prepared when a fight breaks out, though I may likely cast it once a fight seems unavoidable. So many of the less resilient creatures will actively try to avoid you. Usage of this site, including but not limited to making or editing a post or private message or the creation of an account, constitutes acceptance of the Forum Rules. Vengeance Paladin with PAM, Spear & Shield, & Elven Accuracy, Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. Sentinel has great synergy with Polearm Master, yes. Gives damage, reduces accuracy. A paladin human v paladin at lvl 12 could have the same PAM + Sentinel + mounted Combatant + GWM, plate, advantage in 90% of attacks because his mount is large, auras, smite and better spells. Paladins like to roll lots of dice rather than slap with a modifier; leave the latter to barbarians and fighters. Fighter 4 - Here is where you get both feats kicking in and the REAL fun begins! Smites negate the need to have extra damage. The character is a level 14 silver dragonborn paladin of devotion. It really is a simple feat. I'm Topping Damage in my game currently as a Devotion Paladin with 14 STR and a regular Longsword. 1. If so take it at lvl 4 and do what I put in parenthesis. Heavy Armor Master at level 1 is GREAT. That was my take aways specifically because the quote you quoted me was in regards to avoiding being hit to deal the damage. To put it in perspective at level 6 Aura of Protection covers a total of 24 titles around you. He will have a Soldier background. It has a nice 1h duration so it's not a stretch that a Paladin would cast it on himself before entering the evil lair. Highly silly, probably shouldn't have worked, but got the job done. I guarantee you build a Paladin around these and min 16 Con and Cha and you'll repeatedly be able to tank and kill most things you'll fight up to lvl 9 for sure. 2021 North Perth House, photographer Rob Frith. Why do you issue a challenge GWM vs. PAM to me? Dexterity paladins aren't off the table, either. Finally the final consideration is can your character actually survive fighting a pit fiend alone. Hey all! With RA you can then just move back a few paces so that they can't reach you. 2 + PAM + Haste + SoV. It can still WC BB if an enemy tries to disengage. 4. +10 damage to each hit is not nothing, esp. I like the idea of going straight battle master fighter and using maneuvers and positioning to intelligently strike enemies and having a longer reach to keep them at bay. Add 4.5 plus another 4.5 for the slot level up to 4th for an average smite of 22.5 (43.5 on a hit). This gives you +10 to damage with a cost of -5 on the attack roll, a 25% additional miss chance. * About "OA when entering reach": if your DM roleplays monsters with a minimum of realism, once enemies have witnessed that you can hit them hard before they can even *try* to hurt you will act as a powerful repellant for most of them. from you, before he gets the chance to attack you. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. However it's still an increase. Reddit, Inc. 2023. This is a pure fighter build. Further what I would do is remove slasher and do a Charisma boost. and RAI, you need to attack with the polearm in polearm master AoO. Not gonna edit it now since you responded to it but ok. It matters not what spell I use to boost my single round damage with a 1 handed longsword when you cant do the same with a glaive. So we have awesome spells including Haste, we have advantage on all attacks from Oath plus Fear on target for 1 min. Max. So I recommend if you want your core feats on line first do what is not in parenthesis. When looking at build advice for Vengeance Paladins, there's always a lot of discussion around how well PAM/Sentinel works, but it always seems to hinge on rolling a Variant Human or Custom Lineage for the extra feat. If you multiclass it's no more than 3 levels that are not Paladin. The defacto most powerful single class in the game. You can't add it in your scenario because it's in a void but in order to determine the usefulness of that everyone needs to ask themselves a question: how many times have I been approached by an attacking monster and didn't use a reaction? Also, you might want to consider fitting in Resilient (CON). If that's the case, you have to ask yourself if fun is your most important factor going in a game, and if that's the case, you definitely want to grab PAM+ Sentinel by lvl 8 if only because that's what'll bring you satisfaction and not being "on curve" or whatever. Important: The campaign will end around level 10. Variant Human is *the* choice for PAM builds for a reason. Probably with reach they will still be able to attack you, but they won't make it to the casters, which is the goal. Due to Fey Step (Spring?) Not necessarily! Sentinel is nice however if you're routinely having enemies circumvent you its generally because of bad positioning of the front line fighters or their allies. The increase while a buff to Paladins is as I've stated now multiple times not comparable to what fighters and Barbarians can do. They just can't be wielded effectively by small pcs. On bringing up Sentinel still was thinking of when I first brought it up and why I did. Pick whichever Maneuvers you'd like. I was thinking path of conquest, bc the fear ability seems to combo well with the reaction play.
pam sentinel paladin buildrv park old town scottsdale
Having a mount also throws Mounted Combatant into the mix. You can frustrate enemies, protect you allies, make great use of your smites* cool stuff all around. Also have you forgot it was you yourself that proposed do iui ng more damage in a single round than damage over a longer period? Fighter 3 - Take Battle Master. #1 Guys, Im finishing up my Paladin Vengeance Build, I just need some help picking my Race (Variant Human or Half-Elf) and Feats/ASIs (PAM, GWM, Sentinel). damage doesn't properly reflect damage dealt you are simply losing me. Not bad for a min/max vengeance setup. reach you are immune to it's Fire Aura! No matter what you do Smites will still burst damage anything. With that said, letting you roam around freely would be as dangerous for them overall since you proved you were a hard smacker. It is better to have a high AC and high Saves then high STR as a Paladin. At level 7 a Paladin can Solo a CR 13 Creature. Would taking PAM/Sentinel at 4th and 8th put me too far behind the curve? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You can make what ever PAM Paladin you want and we will see what has more single round damage across all categories and which has a higher hit percentage. I'll have to give it a go! Well as a Paladin main player with 15 years of playing across multiple games and DMs I've spent more time running after things in the open that are trying to get away from the Paladin because hes slow as shit then having perfect scenarios work. A +4 will do just fine. They were 2 separate questions. crit vs. max crit and normal hit vs. normal hit max dmg is because of the sheer number of dice thrown. Please enable JavaScript to get the best experience from this site. I would always lean to having a higher Charisma but its a trade off when making a PAM/Sentinel Paladin as you're feat starved. Lots of people I know like using mountain dwarves, dragonborn, half elves, half orcs and variant humans, but any assortment of boosted strength, constitution and/or charisma can theoretically work. 2. The Paladin guide's polearm build has Str/Cha of 16 until level 12, so given how feat-heavy the polearm build is you might be better to just stick with a GWM build and sneak in a +2 Str at level 8. If your reach is 10ft from the Lance, and you're wielding a Quarterstaff, can you attack them at 10ft range and trigger Sentinel? Paladin are Nova Dealers. Fourth you'll have two turns before combat begins to prepare spell or abilities. In game I also found during a role play in a city who the NPC is who could train me. #1 Sup guys! All rights reserved. Here is the idea use Polearm Master and Sentinel feats to maximum effect, using the oft-unused reaction "action". I wanted to hear your advice as to how to build them the best. But I can see its benefits. Hexblade bladelocks can dip paladin to spike nova damage even higher, but they can't sustain it without further paladin or other caster investments. With PAM, Sentinel, GWM its irrelevant as a Paladin. If you hit their movement goes down to zero. He will have a Soldier background. Try magic initiate (warlock) forbooming blade andeldritch blast (or dip warlock for them, probably the better short-term option), along with polearm master and warcaster. Where did Joe roll this damage? Go Half-elf or Variant Human for extra Feat? Also consider taking the bludgeoning feat for the end of your stick. If we are talking just a longsword then we are talking an 84 point difference between max damage and average and 156 point difference between max crit and avg crit. This allows you to push an enemy once per turn. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. You'll be playing all those character ideas in no time, and then some. 32. The only mention of him doing any significant damage is his 135 against Vecna in Critical Role stream. If this is your first visit, be sure to
Other allies can benefit from that trick as well but sadly won't have that handy bonus disengage. In 5 Rounds of Combat you are only dealing slightly more damage than a S&B Paladin. You would start with 16str, 14con, and 16char, and have Str and Char to 18 by level 8. You lose initiative, a melee attacker comes your way and gets whamed in the face once he is 10ft. Lots of foes have reach and if the party is that powerful/numerous youll always be facing more than one foe while you have only 1 reaction. Use choke points to funnel creatures block with bodies etc. 5. Click the link to learn more. My mental image is that of a powerful warrior paladin, standing on the corpses of his enemies, everyone just scared shitless of them. reach which means more chance to crit and more chance to smite). The system runs a lot better when you don't throw the math completely out the window. The number of dice used was too damn high. This was a misunderstanding on my point cause the bulk of what was talked about between me and Rexir had to do comparing different build. At lvl 18 this extends to 168 tiles around you. Just make sure to use your channel divinity to its maximum ability and you'll do great on hitting things. Or anything else? 2023 Wizards. If I may throw in my two cents, precast spells often do matter. You can bonus action shove people prone before your attack(s), basically granting near-permanent advantage on your attacks. 20 strength. or Hammering horns? You'll be behind the curve, but in reality it's not by much because PAM+sentinel isn't too different from PAM+STR, you know? Fighter 9 - Indomitable. Your attack roll bonus is +7, your damage is 1d10 + 4. As a Vengeance Paladin though you are less reliant on Charisma compared to a Devotion. Like what other races have synergy for that exact type of build, along with the Dueling fighting style using a Spear (Spear if want shield or just go Glaive)? As total Round damage will be roughly the same. But the Warden also couldnt touch my AC when he was at Disadvantage from Protection from evil and good. We'll be fighting the same as Further Paladin, making use of PAM's bonus action during Minion type fights while . So what do you guys think is the best setup for Fighting Style, Weapon and Feats for my character? The years of experience playing directly goes into a topic that's covering Sentinel vs Positioning or are you implying that 1st year players are as knowledge on the difference between the two. I agree it's not ideal for anyone with access to Heavy polearms. crit but you still use average damage because you have no chance of rolling that. Depends on the build. I was thinking path of conquest, bc the fear ability seems to combo well with the reaction play. A fighter can shove and damage at same time with trip attack, and the damage is bigger than the beast. Dragonborn get +2 STR, +1 CHA, damage resistances based on their draconic ancestry and their very own breath weapon, which only serves to make them that much more powerful. This would increase your damage out put substantially over slasher. As I've repeatedly said though it matters very little what's done in Paladin v Paladin as the end result on similar characters with different weapons is always going to be a marginal difference at best given a set amount of time. Ok first you're responding to me respond to Rexir2 about single round damage not damage over time or did you not glean this from previous posts on min maxing a Paladin. Granted a Padlock can deal more on a single crit but its max damage is substantially lower. Maneuvering Attack is another good tactical fun choice. The reason it's important to melee with your beast companion is so you can protect it with feats like Sentinel and Mounted Combatant. As the title says, i want to build a paladin with PAM and Sentinel. :). So I need to figure out what I should take on levels 1,4 and 8. This is a reason why I like to dip paladin for melee sorcerer builds. . No such thing as too much D&D :). Please enable JavaScript to get the best experience from this site. credit to the Machine-Gunning Crossbowman build creator, for formatting (and some overlapping content). I may not havebless up or even prepared when a fight breaks out, though I may likely cast it once a fight seems unavoidable. So many of the less resilient creatures will actively try to avoid you. Usage of this site, including but not limited to making or editing a post or private message or the creation of an account, constitutes acceptance of the Forum Rules. Vengeance Paladin with PAM, Spear & Shield, & Elven Accuracy, Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. Sentinel has great synergy with Polearm Master, yes. Gives damage, reduces accuracy. A paladin human v paladin at lvl 12 could have the same PAM + Sentinel + mounted Combatant + GWM, plate, advantage in 90% of attacks because his mount is large, auras, smite and better spells. Paladins like to roll lots of dice rather than slap with a modifier; leave the latter to barbarians and fighters. Fighter 4 - Here is where you get both feats kicking in and the REAL fun begins! Smites negate the need to have extra damage. The character is a level 14 silver dragonborn paladin of devotion. It really is a simple feat. I'm Topping Damage in my game currently as a Devotion Paladin with 14 STR and a regular Longsword. 1. If so take it at lvl 4 and do what I put in parenthesis. Heavy Armor Master at level 1 is GREAT. That was my take aways specifically because the quote you quoted me was in regards to avoiding being hit to deal the damage. To put it in perspective at level 6 Aura of Protection covers a total of 24 titles around you. He will have a Soldier background. It has a nice 1h duration so it's not a stretch that a Paladin would cast it on himself before entering the evil lair. Highly silly, probably shouldn't have worked, but got the job done. I guarantee you build a Paladin around these and min 16 Con and Cha and you'll repeatedly be able to tank and kill most things you'll fight up to lvl 9 for sure. 2021 North Perth House, photographer Rob Frith. Why do you issue a challenge GWM vs. PAM to me? Dexterity paladins aren't off the table, either. Finally the final consideration is can your character actually survive fighting a pit fiend alone. Hey all! With RA you can then just move back a few paces so that they can't reach you. 2 + PAM + Haste + SoV. It can still WC BB if an enemy tries to disengage. 4. +10 damage to each hit is not nothing, esp. I like the idea of going straight battle master fighter and using maneuvers and positioning to intelligently strike enemies and having a longer reach to keep them at bay. Add 4.5 plus another 4.5 for the slot level up to 4th for an average smite of 22.5 (43.5 on a hit). This gives you +10 to damage with a cost of -5 on the attack roll, a 25% additional miss chance. * About "OA when entering reach": if your DM roleplays monsters with a minimum of realism, once enemies have witnessed that you can hit them hard before they can even *try* to hurt you will act as a powerful repellant for most of them. from you, before he gets the chance to attack you. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. However it's still an increase. Reddit, Inc. 2023. This is a pure fighter build. Further what I would do is remove slasher and do a Charisma boost. and RAI, you need to attack with the polearm in polearm master AoO. Not gonna edit it now since you responded to it but ok. It matters not what spell I use to boost my single round damage with a 1 handed longsword when you cant do the same with a glaive. So we have awesome spells including Haste, we have advantage on all attacks from Oath plus Fear on target for 1 min. Max. So I recommend if you want your core feats on line first do what is not in parenthesis. When looking at build advice for Vengeance Paladins, there's always a lot of discussion around how well PAM/Sentinel works, but it always seems to hinge on rolling a Variant Human or Custom Lineage for the extra feat. If you multiclass it's no more than 3 levels that are not Paladin. The defacto most powerful single class in the game. You can't add it in your scenario because it's in a void but in order to determine the usefulness of that everyone needs to ask themselves a question: how many times have I been approached by an attacking monster and didn't use a reaction? Also, you might want to consider fitting in Resilient (CON). If that's the case, you have to ask yourself if fun is your most important factor going in a game, and if that's the case, you definitely want to grab PAM+ Sentinel by lvl 8 if only because that's what'll bring you satisfaction and not being "on curve" or whatever. Important: The campaign will end around level 10. Variant Human is *the* choice for PAM builds for a reason. Probably with reach they will still be able to attack you, but they won't make it to the casters, which is the goal. Due to Fey Step (Spring?) Not necessarily! Sentinel is nice however if you're routinely having enemies circumvent you its generally because of bad positioning of the front line fighters or their allies. The increase while a buff to Paladins is as I've stated now multiple times not comparable to what fighters and Barbarians can do. They just can't be wielded effectively by small pcs. On bringing up Sentinel still was thinking of when I first brought it up and why I did. Pick whichever Maneuvers you'd like. I was thinking path of conquest, bc the fear ability seems to combo well with the reaction play. Aiea Conference Schedule,
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